... also, Chris not to get you even more pissed off at me, but given that your current list is essentially a 600 shot deathstar worth somewhere around 1300-1400 points by my reckining + 3 warmachines + one unit of bulls, it's kind of hillariously ironic you wanting to address death star builds ... you know, just saying. Something about removing the log in your own eye before telling your brother about the speck in his ...
625 for unit. 375 for lord. 200 for bsb. 1200. It might meet the definition of a death star but it does not even come close to what actual death stars do. Only soft targets are really in danger. Ask Brandon how it went for me when he charged his big ass block of knights into it. I did something like 12 wounds, not a single one stuck. Anyone with actual armour saves just laughs off my shooting. I have to depend on magic to make my shooting actually thin out real saves.
"The Machine will grind you down."
Inventor of the "Chris Noble".
Bayou 2011 "Hero to Zero"
Lone Wolf 2011 9 3rd overall. "GateKeeper"
2013 North Texas Battles 3rd overall and tied for 3rd best sport.
"He's a judicious calculating master tactitician who will exploit the slightest weakness in anyone's plan and known for building intricate masterful lists that are incredibly hard to destroy and making people pay dearly for tactical mistakes. "
I know how to beat your list Chris, I've played you 4 times and not lost yet. Regardless of armor saves you still are almost NEVER going to charge that unit where it can stand & shoot unless you have been able to whittle it down with your own shooting/magic, or unless want to lose your rear. Further, it preserves points because since you don't want to charge that, and your 315 point iron demon is nigh-unkillable, your list does exactly what a deathstar list does ... preserves points. Deathstars aren't just about killing things, it's about making it near impossible to get points off your list without massive risk.Originally Posted by Geist
My issue with not allowing MR is that my friend Jordan would not hesitate to shoot Purple Sun through any size unit and I'm sure that if I took less than nine ogres, he would just line up multiple units. I understand that it's in the rules, but having a death Mage ride around finding the best angle to shoot the vortex down my lines is not fun. When that mage also has a power stone to make sure he gets it off is even less fun. This isn't about Death Stars, it's about not being able to kill off an army with one spell.
I agree Mike. I do dislike deathstars, but if you polled all warhammer players about the biggest issue in this edition, 6 dicing the killer spells would invariably be the number one or number two issue (laser cannons being the other). Deathstars are an annoyance and an often boring/frustrating style to play against. 6 dicing killer spells with no save is utter bullsh*t and bad rules.
Todd. Yes it retains points. But it still can and has lost many times. It is not about beating the death star for points its about winning the game. Others and yourself do that so your point looses some of its ground. Also the iron demon can be killed and often dies early on. You just have to grind it. It is hard to kill not nigh also only 310, small point but I like to keep the numbers as tidy as possible.
Mike. I see where you are coming from and your game with Jordan here home bound is where my first instinct remove the ward rule comes from. But I am saddled with seeing both sides of this coin. This is part of why the rule has not been written into effect yet.
My ruling of putting the Alamo rule into effect is now officially on pause. A round table in form of new thread with poll will be held to debate not argue about what should be done.
"The Machine will grind you down."
Inventor of the "Chris Noble".
Bayou 2011 "Hero to Zero"
Lone Wolf 2011 9 3rd overall. "GateKeeper"
2013 North Texas Battles 3rd overall and tied for 3rd best sport.
"He's a judicious calculating master tactitician who will exploit the slightest weakness in anyone's plan and known for building intricate masterful lists that are incredibly hard to destroy and making people pay dearly for tactical mistakes. "
I would suggest limiting the number of models that could be covered by MR. I think being able to try the ward save on half of the newly dead rank and file and all characters is a decent compromise.
I don't know what you are talking about Mike. 1/3 of the ogres live through purple. How is that killing an army? You still get look out's on your characters from purple. If anything purple will be lucky to kill 4/6 ogres. Not all death wizards ride around on horses either. Purple on the flank is best case scenario. Throw in something random like pit of shades with a scatter and I would be lucky to hit more than 3 ogres. And that is only vs low initiative targets. You are taking a 1500 point unit and crying that something might be able to kill it. I don't understand the reasoning at all especially when in reality I would be lucky to get 2/3 of the unit barring I don't misfire or fail to roll far enough on the artillery.
We should go back to 7th edition when there was more balance in the universe. :P
Warhammer legend 1990 -2015. RIP Warhammer Fantasy. F**k GW
Warmachine legend in training!
Kings of War if I have to...
My most expensive unit including characters is around 900 points and is eleven models. My other unit is around 700 points including characters and is also eleven models. Nine Bulls with full command and iron fists plus nine Ironguts with full command and Standard of Discipline comes in at 750 points. That is my core. Unless I take gnoblars, my model count is pretty close to the minimum.
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