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Thread: this seems to be turning into a regular thing

  1. #1
    Senior Member morella888's Avatar
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    this seems to be turning into a regular thing

    as in, yet another iteration of 'small group of people A' and 'small group of people B' collectively get themselves all worked up over something supposedly involving toy soldiers in the grimdark, start making threads that turn into a platform for expressing opinions, which inevitably turns into an argument, which leads to several people getting personally offended, insulted, and disproportionately rancorous, which ends up being closed, and after a few more threads I make some crazed rant.

    Well, this time last year I was well and truly crazy, but this year I am not at all crazed. Just annoyed and frustrated, once again having friends and people I may not know well but have respect for, on either side of some clash of personalities war, and then I have to hear it from both sides until my patience wears thin.

    I am going to use 'we' and 'you' here, because it is easier. Decide for yourself if the following applies to you, though some have gotten portions of this personally already, so should know.

    I know this is the internet. I know that most of the people I am addressing have been acquainted for many years. And I also know that there are a lot of people who come to this forum for information or to talk about games or introduce themselves to the community in a non-anxiety inducing format, and these people aren't aware of that history many of you share. So they see the ugly, disgusting, uncivilized, ignorant vitriol being slung about and some decide they want nothing to do with any of this. And I am not overstating there, as I recently had to explain, yet again, to someone new (while having a game with someone else who doesn't participate on the forum or regularly at DL anymore because of this same kind of crap), why a bunch of supposed adults, most of whom paid money to have one or more pieces of paper certifying their educated status, are behaving like two packs of starved hyenas fighting over a carcass, for all the world to see.

    I am not going to bother bringing up specifics. I am too tired, and really I just don't think it is worth my time. It probably is a waste no matter what. But at least, I hope, people who come to this forum, and aren't involved in your petty and self-interested howling, can see this and take away the message that the vast majority of 40k players in Austin don't choose to routinely behave so poorly to one another. Most of us are very fun and nice people. So are the people who get into these things, they just forget their manners and how to disagree respectfully about two or three times a year. I count myself in that number on occasion, but then again, I have a doctor's note for when I behaved badly.

    My last thought, and this is based on a smattering of stories from lots of you, conversations we have had, and a lot of assumption and intuition and the fact that I am just older and have had to deal with the horror of accepting that fact. I know there was a big regular group at DL (maybe at BFG too, can't remember if it closed before or after I was in Orlando) when I moved back to Austin in 2007, because I showed up occasionally. I remember I didn't feel particularly welcomed, and that may be mostly due to me, but I observed the size and feel of the group. And I am pretty sure that vibe, that was apparent to an outsider, is what darkwynn means when he talks about a community, or laments our lack thereof now. That energy was still apparent when I decided to quit being such a pathetic, anxious recluse and start showing up regularly 3 years ago. And you still see glimmers of it on occasion. I think its mostly luck when that sort of spirit persists for a while, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to work towards maintaining it. For those of you who were part of that moment, I know some have gotten drawn away, or time restricted, because of kids, and jobs, and life that doesn't revolve around a game. I assume most of you have changed somewhat in the years since then, and I am sorry to say this, but you can't get that back, not in exactly the same way. That community was a moment in time that is over, and no amount of shouting or planning will resurrect it. But I promise you there are some pretty great people around Austin that you may not have met yet, and who love the hobby, and would probably be happy to be part of similar sort of group, if it didn't seem so obsessed with passionate arguments over trivial things, or could at least conduct them while maintaining some dignity and respect.
    Last edited by morella888; 02-01-2015 at 08:59 PM.

  2. #2
    sysadmin DandyPandy's Avatar
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    Do you think it would make a difference if the forums were opened up to be read-only to the world, for all the googlebots to crawl and record into history for all time, forever, amen?

    I don't know the history as to why the board was closed up to registered members only, but it seriously makes it harder for new players in the Austin area to find the site via search engine. While the community won't ever be what it was to you a couple of years ago, it can be something really good and vibrant again, but differently, with new people joining the community. I think making centexwar.com show up in the first page of Google results for "warhammer 40k austin" would be a good way to help people discover the community.

  3. #3
    Senior Member morella888's Avatar
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    I don't know the technical of it all, but if it is easier to find, then that sounds worthwhile,

    provided the people here can start acting in a manner that would not associate "warhammer 40k Austin" with nothing but people screaming at each other constantly.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Psyberwolfe's Avatar
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    @DandyPandy The forum was closed to registered members because forums like this regularly get hacked by Russian sex bots. Also we had Wonderful people from Warseer and B&C regularly coming to our old forum and trolling the site.

    @thepeanutgallery Next everyone needs to get off their respective high hard/hobby horse and realize it's toy soldiers. You don't like the tournaments? Don't go. You think 10 Battle Wagon Spam is OTT? Don't play it. You think your opponent cheated you? Talk to to them. Seriously. This is your free time and you're wasting it on negativity.

    I was asked by some friends to weigh in on some closed/deleted threads before they were closed/deleted why I didn't come around here much and why I stopped coming on Thursday. The truth is between the drama and my debilitating arthritis it became too much. I'm running a D&D table on Wednesdays at Dlair because it's fun. Bottom line toy soldiers should be fun not a chore. I'll go back to lurking now.
    póg mo thóin
    If I tell you, "You're wrong," you'll need to click this.

    Does anybody else find it odd, by the way, that the information age has led to language becoming an oblique and imprecise tool where even the most straightforward phrasing is pored over with chicken entrails and bone tossing to divine the true meaning?

  5. #5
    Senior Member Hogleg's Avatar
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    Mike. I love you buddy, but the fact that you think ten battle wagon spam is a thing really informs how far removed you are from the actual conversation at hand. Basically I wish it was that easily distilled. But let's all agree there's only one vehicle with a problem and it's not in codex orks.

    And @morella you're not wrong for your thoughtful energy, but by and large it's wind and smoke and then an empty thing you deal with. Real anger ends up directionless. People rattle bones and imaginary sabres and it's fine. With me my biggest concern is that there is a cognitive dissonance, or even ignorance of the army construction ruleset between 40k TOs and actual players. I can't even joke about fixing that.
    Quote Originally Posted by RealGenius View Post
    Your "booty > money > toy soldiers" logic is indeed irrefutable.
    http://www.centexwar.com/warroom/group.php?groupid=8

  6. #6
    Senior Member Hogleg's Avatar
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    I should also say most of the words on the forum are empty rattles. Folks aren't less an adult because they become heated. We say things and then it no longer becomes a thing. Or maybe it lingers and that animosity is allowed to exist but we recognize it.

    It's easy to call what we do just play. We have our toy soldiers and we move them and imagine their little violences; but on some sides these are old stories that helped us with lord knows what or how but it wasn't a game it was the thing at that moment and maybe we were sad. Maybe this was the thing that maybe made some days not hurt. So if we become defensive, and can say even a little inside, that our outrage or argument has purpose? Well maybe we're all closer to connecting after all.

    As mad as we can get at one another I promise the epherma or, and I say the prefix with all reverence, nerd-like existence is a unifying positive force. We may argue about a moment and that can feel very angry or adult. But at the same time that feeling can turn. And basically it's not so bad as it seems.

    And i don't mean to dismiss your worry. It is hard, and weights are heavy. Leave them behind.

  7. #7
    Senior Member morella888's Avatar
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    Thanks tyson. I get the dynamic, and agree about the cathartic effects. Its the people who just come here for the first time or infrequently that I had in mind. Because taken out of the context you provided, it looks awful. I haven't even been telling new people I meet to come here anymore.

    I am far, far from some misty-eyed polyanna. And I get worked up as much as any of you. And I don't always check myself. I just hope everyone can remember this forum serves a wider audience. And that written words last longer and translate differently than spoken ones. And the name calling really bugs me.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Beamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hogleg View Post
    Mike. I love you buddy, but the fact that you think ten battle wagon spam is a thing really informs how far removed you are from the actual conversation at hand. Basically I wish it was that easily distilled. But let's all agree there's only one vehicle with a problem and it's not in codex orks.
    The flavor changes, but the point stands. In this case, the flavor has been the same for awhile, but still: If you have a problem with the things showing up, you don't have to play it Thursday nights, and you don't have to come to tournaments. The reverse is still true: you aren't legally obligated to create the most unfun list possible for a tournament. That's what the real problem is, moreso than the opportunity existing somewhere in a given codex.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Beamo View Post
    The flavor changes, but the point stands. In this case, the flavor has been the same for awhile, but still: If you have a problem with the things showing up, you don't have to play it Thursday nights, and you don't have to come to tournaments. The reverse is still true: you aren't legally obligated to create the most unfun list possible for a tournament. That's what the real problem is, moreso than the opportunity existing somewhere in a given codex.
    I stopped coming to tournaments for a while because I was sick of the sour attitudes. A couple of friends stopped coming at least in part because the tournament rules were a confusing mess (Tyson seems to have fixed that at least for now).

    I just want to put together a legal list and come and play. The end. I don't really care much if I win the tournament...but I don't want what I play to be subject to oddball list construction house rules and community review either. Shut up and play.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Hogleg's Avatar
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    Some of my tournaments have oddball house rules. But I think they are fun.
    Quote Originally Posted by RealGenius View Post
    Your "booty > money > toy soldiers" logic is indeed irrefutable.
    http://www.centexwar.com/warroom/group.php?groupid=8

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