Objective: To improve the hobby situation for hobby tournaments.
Parameters:
Someone for the first time could play and join in.
Not restrictive where its too hard to understand.
Objective: To improve the hobby situation for hobby tournaments.
Parameters:
Someone for the first time could play and join in.
Not restrictive where its too hard to understand.
Random prize support drawings, instead of competition based. That way everyone has a chance even the worst player there.
D-bag lists (we all know what they are)should be ejected from the tournament. PERIOD! Because some people have proven that they will bring D-bag lists no matter what. Send them home once and they won't return with the same list. It's no fun getting beat senseless by an over the top list and hobby games should be FUN.
"Don't take my win from me! I don't have many to claim!"
-Dandy
Good question. Without setting rules for each army could be hard.
*No special charactors
*No more than one choice from Elites/Fast Attack/ Heavy i.e.
Leman russ one- yes there are different builds you can get but they still fall under the same choice in the book (even by sqaudrons only one tank)
Nobz- cant be troops and can only have one under elites as that is where they are in the book
Space Marines - Captian on Bike, only take bikes as Fast attack as that is where they are. And only one
Still a hard question but looking at new players this could work.
Just some thoughts split between hobby and heavy. I will flush this out once I am on the plane more but some initial thoughts.
Everything goes to a Win/Draw/Loss System for heavy and hobby. It keeps things super simple for people and scoring.
Lay out for Normal tournament.
Prizes for Regular tournament
1st overall
2nd Overall
3rd Overall
Point spread per round Percentage Possible
battle 33% 20
Painting 33% 20
Sportsmanship 33% 20
Total per round 100% 60
3 rounds 180 points
Battle points will be
Win = 15 points
draw = 10
Loss = 5
Bonus points/ Malice points : Difference in Victory points.
1450-1750 / +5 / -5
1150-1449 / +4 / -4
850-1149 / +3 / -3
550-849 / +2 / -2
250-549 / +1 / -1
Painting could be kept the same.
Sportsmanship would be a simple good game or bad game.
Each Mission will have a primary Objective
one Win condition. No more need to win by a lot or a little. Just win.
Standard Missions
Seize ground
3 Objective
5 Objective
Capture and Control
Kill points
------------------------------------------------------------------
Hobby would be same battle system so its not confusing from week to week but point % and prizes would differ.
Prizes for Hobby/ Theme Tournaments
1st Overall
2nd Overall
3rd Best Painted
Point spread per round Percentage
battle 20% 20
Painting 40% 40
Sportsmanship\Theme\Balance 40% 40
Total per round 100% 100
3 rounds 300
Mission will have a primary objective
Random effects such as below:
2-4 round table effect
Night fight
Firestorms
Null zone
Shrouding effects
random effects
Pull Primary Objectives from Mission bank (Need to create this)
These are ideas i am just throwing up on the board for now.
1. Make it very plain when announcing the tournament that it will be for fun/hobby. Make it clear that scenarios may not be from the rule book and may be unbalanced towards certain armies (like giving all units fleet, or having an entire game with night fight in effect). Let people know that this event is about having a good time and playing some goofy/different scenarios, not about being completely balanced so the only real variables are generals and their armies.
2. Very basic comp, ask people to bring multiple lists to a tournament, have a judge give it a quick scan. If it's a heavy list (and the crew we have in Austin can tell with a glance whether a list is heavy or not) either ask them to use a different list or dock their tournament points, nothing ridiculous, but enough to give people playing less competitive lists an advantage. Let people know that this will be happening and that there is no discussion on it. Maybe ban certain lists, like leafblower. I'm not a huge fan of that idea but I know even docking people who play leafblower lists might not make a huge difference at the end of the day and the super heavy lists would still not be fun to play against if you are a new guy at the tournaments (or hell, if you're me!)
3. Do wonky stuff with the force org chart, don't allow special characters, only allow a few specific special characters from each codex, encourage people to bring rarely used units (We're playing on a tech world, marine players who bring a conversion beamer and who can keep it alive until the end of their mission get a bonus point, or something like that). Try to break up the old hyper-competitive way to build lists. I know I use Lysander as a crutch, keeping me from using him would make me think in different directions and would remove a really tough nut from my list that would make it easier for a newer or less competitive player to have more fun.
4. Don't make the prize support entirely about getting the most victory points, the overall victor should get something. But people who come in with especially creative/fluffy lists, excellent paint jobs, conversions, etc should get something as well. Maybe have some kind of door prize for people who have never been to a tournament before to encourage them to come back. The stuff I listed are things we do already, but the point i'm trying to make is figure out a way to give out awards that don't reward people for coming in with a tuned up list and stomping baby seals on a hobby day.
5. Make the tournaments an entirely different format. Steve was talking last weekend about doing a heresy era tourny/1 day campaign. Get two teams of heresy and non-heresy imperial players together, winning team gets gift cards to dragons lair and a plaque, or something ridiculous. These Hobby tournaments need to be about having fun and doing something different, I'd love to be able to bring a fluffy themed list to a story driven event one day, sounds like loads of fun
A lot of the stuff I've mentioned has been tossed around before, and I'm certainly not saying that I'm a font of new ideas. But I would like to see our community be able to turn off the kill switch for a weekend and be able to come in and have a good time without the frayed nerves I've seen in the past.
I think new players have fun with special characters, so I don't know that outright restricting them is the answer. Capping it at one however, makes sense. I do think there have to be stringent parameters, and one way to easily set stringent parameters is to simply reduce the points value. To be fair, it's hard to build a non-heavy-hitting list at 2500 points. Somethings gonna punch hard, even if it is simply 60 marines. However I think some people set out to build an *** kick list, getting around the fast attack requirement by bringing a single fast attack model at minimum point allocation etc. This was a little mean spirited, and the prize-carrot at the end of the tournament proved irresistible.
If players bring lists to Hobby tournaments outside the spirit of fun, or sportsmanship that hobby tournaments are meant to be, then they should be advised that it is unlikely that they will win with that list. Their opponents need to objectively and honestly rate the list comp. Or if there is bandwidth, a panel of 2 or more judges need to review the lists independently.
Reducing the point cost to a hobby size between 1250 and 1550 will go a long way to place restrictions on list building: If a special character costs more than a land raider in a 1250 point list, then people may think twice about bringing him. And if they do bring them, then they just handicapped themselves elsewhere.
I like the unit allowances and restrictions however, perhaps setting a point limit then stating x% of points must be spent on x unit type. Or limiting HQs to 1. (As a wolf player, I think I brought a hobby list, but I still brought 4 HQs).
As far as prizes go, I think prize support for 1-3rd as normal with one random dice off prize for those who didn't fit in the top three would be nice (similar to the way fantasy does their weekly tourney here, perhaps secondary and tertiary objectives that award dice at the end of the game, rather than bonus battle points). This encourages people to stick around and play. Perhaps experienced players could be rewarded additional dice for helping a newer player rather than speeding up play to an unreasonable level and shocking them into the tournament scene. (Just with a tick box on the score sheet asking: was your opponent helpful and patient, or something similar).
Tournaments aren't the best place for new players, but we've had several at the last two, I'd rather not see them scared off of the hobby, and we don't always have room or time to coach them through. But allowing them to step back a phase if they forgot to do something they clearly meant to do, or reminding them of rules they may have overlooked will only improve the quality of play.
At the table next to me I saw Whill4 talk a new player through his entire game at the end of the tournament, teaching him rules, and helping him play. I know I'd have lost patience there a time or two, and I consider myself very patient.
That said, I like that the regular monthly is as hard as a sailor's leg, we just need to adjust the mindset for the bi-monthly fun tournaments.
They should be fun, and there should be prizes for having fun, not ruining the fun of others.
Last edited by Hogleg; 02-14-2011 at 02:09 PM.
http://www.centexwar.com/warroom/group.php?groupid=8Originally Posted by RealGenius
I like this idea. Even if we only assigned one prize this way, I think it would be better.
Also, to mention Josh by name, that Dreadnought list is as much fun as eating glass. I like playing with Josh, but that list isn't a game against Josh; it's just figuring out how to beat the list, which just plain isn't fun. And Nick shouldn't ever bring his stupid Leafblower army again, for the same reason.
A lot of this doesn't really work.
Special Characters in 40K are a lot more integrat than in WFB, and disallowing them is crippling to gameplay. Also very few (I'm looking at Njall, Logan, and Mephiston) actually have enormous impact on the game to the point where restricting them makes sense.
I also don't think capping special characters at some arbitrary number makes sense. They simply are not all created equal.
Do you mean no more than one of the same Heavy / Elite / Fast Choice? If so, I'm for that for most codices, but against it for things like Tau and Necrons. Heck, I'd be willing to create a list of units that would be 0-1 (or 0-2) for tournaments, because there aren't many that are just plain sucky to play against.
I don't think the Nobz or Bikes restriction make sense or make the game better. I know first hand that a SM Bike list isn't anything like a Heavy list.
Also, remember guys DL is still a store and a business foremost. We have to find ways to work within the community and still follow DL policies. DL will have a hard time telling people they can't play in their store unless its for reasons they can't control.
For the Record I brought Tau with 100 foot infantry!
Last edited by Darkwynn; 02-14-2011 at 02:23 PM.
Rather than Leaf-Blower, what do you call that, the Dust-Buster?
http://www.centexwar.com/warroom/group.php?groupid=8
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