Thread: Jink, cover, and a few other rules clarifications

This came up Sunday, I was wrong on Jink. However there was some confusion I made on a cover ruling. So I also wanted to explain intervening terrain.

On Jink:
The FAQ reads 'Skimmers that are not also Heavy vehicles or are immobilized have the Jink special rule."

So Jink is lost the moment the vehicle becomes immobile, even if you Jinked earlier in the phase the rule is lost after the vehicle is immobilized.

On Cover:

This one is harder to explain but I wanted to demonstrate it's change based on the rule book because it's all too often overlooked. The gist is, shooting through an intervening terrain feature doesn't bestow the save of that feature onto the obscured unit, the save is instead taken at a 5+. Meaning shooting at a unit or model whose line of site is obscured by a ruin, the cover save would not be the same as if the unit or model were contained within the ruin. Which also makes it hilariously possible to get a better save from being obscured by some terrain vs being in it. Like craters.

The rule for cover and it's save is on page: 37. Whether or not you "are in cover behind" or "in" is explained on 108, as is the save for ruin and one's eligibility for the 4+ save. So to get the 4+ ruin save you must be in the ruin, if you are simply 25% obscured by a ruin your save is 5+. Or if you are in a crater your save is a 6+, but if you are somehow obscured by it, you'd have a 5+.

Vehicles are different as their rule states that they receive the benefit based on being 25% obscured.

All that said, it's confusing and I'm a fan of allowing the better save in the spirit of holy crap cover is explained in a convoluted way in the rule book. The whole idea of defining "behind" and "in" is new so if you guys want to talk about house ruling it so that things basically work the way most people play (Basically if you are in or 25% obscured, then take the terrain feature's save.) I'm up for that.

Originally Posted by Hogleg

This one is harder to explain but I wanted to demonstrate it's change based on the rule book because it's all too often overlooked. The gist is, shooting through an intervening terrain feature doesn't bestow the save of that feature onto the obscured unit, the save is instead taken at a 5+. Meaning shooting at a unit or model whose line of site is obscured by a ruin, the cover save would not be the same as if the unit or model were contained within the ruin. Which also makes it hilariously possible to get a better save from being obscured by some terrain vs being in it. Like craters.

The rule for cover and it's save is on page: 37. Whether or not you "are in cover behind" or "in" is explained on 108, as is the save for ruin and one's eligibility for the 4+ save. So to get the 4+ ruin save you must be in the ruin, if you are simply 25% obscured by a ruin your save is 5+. Or if you are in a crater your save is a 6+, but if you are somehow obscured by it, you'd have a 5+.

Well, I'm not sure that is what top of pg 108 is saying. Craters give you a 6+ even if you aren't obscured 25%, as long as you are in it. It would be impossible for a Centurion to get the 5+ being 25% obscured by a GW crater, meaning they get no save standing behind it. But a 6+ inside it.

The rules for walls seems pretty clearly to indicate a 4+ for in cover behind, which 108 says is 25% obscured by the wall.

Yeah Matt, vehicles are different and crystal clear. It also specifies vehicles ignore the other rules for cover cause they have their own.

For non-vehicles on page 108 it says a ruin gives you a 4+ if you are in it, then they define what it means to be behind and what it means to be in.

I'm all for house rule play the way we always do.

Originally Posted by ccrraazzyyman

Page 77 in the box labeled "Obscured Vehicles."
"Picture 2: more than 25%of the front of the Space Marine Rhino is hidden by the ruin - the Rhino is obscured and will receive a 4+ cover save."
No house rule needed. The book is very clear that a vehicle obscured by ruins gets a 4+ cover.

No one disagrees about vehicles, I believe he's talking the difference between a non-vehicle unit being in as opposed to 'in cover behind' certain pieces of terrain.

Originally Posted by Hogleg

For non-vehicles on page 108 it says a ruin gives you a 4+ if you are in it, then they define what it means to be behind and what it means to be in.

But then it looks like almost all of them it gives the same cover save for 'in cover behind'. Well, I guess craters don't. Craters would be a 5+ if you can somehow be behind it and get 25% obscured, which is probably really tough for most things. Barricades and Walls, Defense Line, Gun Emplacement, Imperial Statuary -- there's only really behind since you can't be in it. Rubble is like craters -- in = 4+, looks like behind = 5+.

What was the intervening cover that caused the issue to bring this up? I'm assuming it was some sort of area terrain and 'in cover behind' applies instead of 'in', right?

Originally Posted by ccrraazzyyman

Page 77 in the box labeled "Obscured Vehicles."
"Picture 2: more than 25%of the front of the Space Marine Rhino is hidden by the ruin - the Rhino is obscured and will receive a 4+ cover save."
No house rule needed. The book is very clear that a vehicle obscured by ruins gets a 4+ cover.

Again, not talking about vehicles.

Originally Posted by RealGenius

No one disagrees about vehicles, I believe he's talking the difference between a non-vehicle unit being in as opposed to 'in cover behind' certain pieces of terrain.



But then it looks like almost all of them it gives the same cover save for 'in cover behind'. Well, I guess craters don't. Craters would be a 5+ if you can somehow be behind it and get 25% obscured, which is probably really tough for most things. Barricades and Walls, Defense Line, Gun Emplacement, Imperial Statuary -- there's only really behind since you can't be in it. Rubble is like craters -- in = 4+, looks like behind = 5+.

What was the intervening cover that caused the issue to bring this up? I'm assuming it was some sort of area terrain and 'in cover behind' applies instead of 'in', right?

Big ruin in the middle of the table. Models were about 12" away from it but obscured by it. So that's a 5+.

And I mentioned the crater behind thing as a joke, cause gretchin.