New Battle Demi-Companies and BC

So...

Angels of Death includes several new formations, but of note are two new ones (okay maybe not "new" but "new to this book and now available to all chapters") with interesting names:

Stormlance Battle Demi-Company and Pinion Battle Demi-Company

The question I have is this: can you combine these with either themselves and/or a regular Battle Demi-Company under a Gladius Strike Force to form a full Battle Company?

Arguments both ways:

1. It doesn't say you can
2. It doesn't say you can't

Now, I'm of the OPINION that you should be able to, because otherwise, why name them XXX Battle Demi-Company? That's a poor argument, however, in terms of rules-lawyering, so I submit it to the group for discussion.

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Originally Posted by CrusherJoe

So...

Angels of Death includes several new formations, but of note are two new ones (okay maybe not "new" but "new to this book and now available to all chapters") with interesting names:

Stormlance Battle Demi-Company and Pinion Battle Demi-Company

The question I have is this: can you combine these with either themselves and/or a regular Battle Demi-Company under a Gladius Strike Force to form a full Battle Company?

Arguments both ways:

1. It doesn't say you can
2. It doesn't say you can't

Now, I'm of the OPINION that you should be able to, because otherwise, why name them XXX Battle Demi-Company? That's a poor argument, however, in terms of rules-lawyering, so I submit it to the group for discussion.

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Can I use a Riptide Wing as part of a Battle Company?

sarcasm aside the answer is no. Honestly I would love to run one of the kauyon formations in my battle company, but until they explicitly say I can do it it will remain a pipe dream.

Matt why would you say that? It is called a battle demi company.

Which is the only reason I thought it was possible in the first place.

I think it has more to do with what formation type it is than what book it comes from.....as long as it's from the same faction.

I looked in the codex and I believe it is pretty clear abou that two battle Demi companies construct a gladius and I would not think it meant the ones in aod. This is based upon reading the space marines codex.

I've heard other people say that 40k is a permissive ruleset, so unless you are explicitly told you can do it, you can't. The codex says "If a Gladius Strike Force includes two Battle Demi-Companies..." (note the capitalization). Battle Demi-company is listed as a core formation for the Gladius. It doesn't say Pinion Battle Demi-company. Therefore, those can't be used as a core formation under a Gladius Strike Force.

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Originally Posted by DandyPandy

I've heard other people say that 40k is a permissive ruleset, so unless you are explicitly told you can do it, you can't.

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I dont disagree with your point as i dont have books in front of me. but

This statement is made of fairy dust and wishes. GW would never be so clear.

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Originally Posted by Minus67

I dont disagree with your point as i dont have books in front of me. but

This statement is made of fairy dust and wishes. GW would never be so clear.

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I'm saying other people have said it, and in general terms it can be applied. I know they sometimes suck at writing rules. But yeah, the thing about the Gladius is very specific.

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Originally Posted by DandyPandy

I've heard other people say that 40k is a permissive ruleset, so unless you are explicitly told you can do it, you can't. The codex says "If a Gladius Strike Force includes two Battle Demi-Companies..." (note the capitalization). Battle Demi-company is listed as a core formation for the Gladius. It doesn't say Pinion Battle Demi-company. Therefore, those can't be used as a core formation under a Gladius Strike Force.

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I agree!

Technically both Pinion Battle Demi-Company and Stormlance Battle Demi-Company (note the capitalization) are considered Core choices for the Gladius (at least they're called that in Army Builder). They contain the same restrictions as the Battle Demi-Company (requiring the same command in either a Captain or Chaplain) and most of the same composition rules (with minor differences). The problem -- to me, anyway -- as why there's even a question is that they're called XXX Battle Demi-Company. That's a pretty specific name. If it were named Stormlance Battle Formation there would be no question. But using that specific name makes me think you can use them.

In C:SM, the description of the Gladius Strike Force (the detachment in which you place Battle Demi-Companies in to create a Battle Company) says this:

"RESTRICTIONS:
This Detachment must include at least one Core choice and one Auxiliary choice. It may
include up to one more Core choice, up to three Command choices and any number of
additional Auxiliary choices, in any combination. Only the datasheets listed here can be
included in this Detachment. All units in the Detachment must have the Space Marines
Faction and must be drawn from the same Chapter." (Emphasis mine)

Now, this would seem to indicate the death-knell for my argument, however, we all know that this is true at the time of C:SM's publication. This does not mean that further rules could not (and more than likely would, considering GW's history) modify the restrictions on the GSF.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that unless FAQ'd, this one is open to interpretation.

NOW, because I like rulesy questions, I ask a new one:

In all of the new detachments where the Skyhammer Annihilation Force is allowed, it's an Aux choice. Does this mean it is also an Aux choice in the Gladius? Again, remember that Skyhammer was released only on the web previously. Unfortunately I don't know enough about how these things work to be able to make even an educated guess. Does anyone know if the original release included it as an Aux choice in GSF or not?

What say you?

The Wulfen book has the same issue with the Death Pack formation. It is a core choice. However, it is not listed in the "Decurion" map in the Wulfen Supplement. But, the Wulfen book says that it IS a supplement meant to add to or replace entries in Codex SW. That is why I can't understand those that still try to use the Iron Priest as an Elite. It states very clearly in the codex that it REPLACES entries in Codex SW.

the gladius is specific to two battle demi companies each led by a captain and chaplain. it's a very special unit with special command benefits. after reading the codex i do not get the impression it is meant to be constructed with a compilation of multiple cores and auxes. also, i would not cite army builder as a reason for allowing something. army builder is not good at the decurion style formations and their command benefits.

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Originally Posted by noodlers

the gladius is specific to two battle demi companies each led by a captain and chaplain. it's a very special unit with special command benefits. after reading the codex i do not get the impression it is meant to be constructed with a compilation of multiple cores and auxes. also, i would not cite army builder as a reason for allowing something. army builder is not good at the decurion style formations and their command benefits.

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Actually...no, it isn't. It's the only Detachment besides CAD or an Allied Detachment Marines have access to in C:SM. And it very much it built around Command, Core, and Aux choices. :)

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Originally Posted by CrusherJoe

Actually...no, it isn't. It's the only Detachment besides CAD or an Allied Detachment Marines have access to in C:SM. And it very much it built around Command, Core, and Aux choices. :)

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yes that is correct i was uninformed about the gladius

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Originally Posted by noodlers

yes that is correct i was uninformed about the gladius

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It happens to everyone...I wouldn't worry about it too much. :)