So, what are the Issues the 40k Community needs to Address?

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Originally Posted by morella888

I get why you feel that way, but I think from the standpoint of issues being in the public, it is helpful to know what opinions are out there, so there isn't all this shadowy speculation or vague references to "people have said". But of course, one should do what they feel comfortable doing. And yeah, burying something in 12 pages of nonsense can feel like putting your hand in a blender.

Sorry about the allergies. I know it sounds crazy, but I know people who swear by acupuncture for it, and there is a low cost teaching clinic in Austin (2 in fact).

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I'm more concerned about being non-productive than I am about getting my hands dirty. I'm usually ready for the blender, it's the lack of a reply two pages later that disenfranchises me.

I do agree it's very difficult to assimilate much out of arbitrary comments and anecdotal evidence without any structure. It becomes very hard to draw the line between a vocal minority and a silent majority.

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Originally Posted by Geist

I cant speak for my clone, but I can say this as a T.O. I can not work to please everyone, but I can work to make it equal for all to fail and to succeed with the same chance of either effect happening. In a nutshell yes we T.O.s should not be tyrants but some times its just easier to say my way or else.

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But I would say you do a very good job of soliciting opinions and feedback before drawing the hard line.

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Originally Posted by Splug

Tournament rules tend to trickle into other games as sort of a default rule set. This includes even having the point value that is most likely to be played on a given Thursday being either the point value from the previous tournament, or the one from the next tournament. People will deviate from that point for a random afternoon game of course, but that's kind of the mutually-accepted starting point to migrate from.

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Yeah, and I understand why that happens. But I think there might be some creative ways to provide alternatives for those who would want them. Hmmmm, thinking...

Also, thanks for the useful insights.

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Originally Posted by Minus67

The problem is that other types of events typically do not draw much if any interest. The community as a whole seems to be able to block on one sunday a month for games and a tournaments with its 3 guaranteed games is what the people want. They also require another dedicated person to run them. This has been tried in the past with leagues, campaigns, apoc events etc. None of them pan out as they require more time then the community seems to have the ability to expend.

As for the data. many have tried none have succeeded, you can scour the web and find many interested players such as yourself trying to gather empirical evidence on how to make the game better. So far none have succeeded. The game is too complex with too many variables to gather empirical data on how to make it better. So all we are left with is the gathered anecdotal evidence of the player base to attempt to make the game better which is what we are trying to do.

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Sorry if this sounds entirely too didactic. I am heavy in scholarly research mode right now in my life.

Somehow I missed this post earlier. My point isn't on gathering metadata. I couldn't care less about that. This is strictly local. When I say researcher, I lean more on the qualitative end of the scale anyway. What I want, and what I would hope to enlist others to assist with, is to assemble a list of the main important questions to be addressed as to what having a healthy community means, both in terms of the personal (e.g. I like to be able to show up at DL on ... and meet someone I haven't played 1000x before or ... or...) and the common. In finding those questions, this points the direction of what issues threaten the stability of the community from each member's perspective, and once the threats are identified you can measure whether the threats are real or hypothetical. The hypothetical ones can then obviously be ignored until such time as they become apparent. So you reduce the number of actual threats to be dealt with, leading to a more efficient resource allocation as well as a heightened sense of community awareness and involvement. That last bit I will get to later on hopefully.

Also, a comment and a personal experience regarding the alternative types of events. I would posit the theory that there are essentially many different groups present in the community, and that focussing solely on the tournament crowd is neglecting a currently unacknowledged and thereby invisible subset. I may be very wrong, but feel strongly that an effort should be made to determine the actual state of things in that regard.

When I moved back here in 2007, I went to one 500 pt escalation event at DL that was just kicking off. It was a distinctly uncomfortable atmosphere for me at that time and I didn't come back for several years. While I was in Orlando prior to that, I was fortunate to locate a truly excellent group of folks at an unconventional game store, and I guess the two worlds were so very different that my expectations and that first experience were so misaligned that I just couldn't see myself integrating into the scene here. Really the only reason I am here now was because I ended up spending days and days sitting around DL 18 months ago trying in vain to get some more people into Maifaux, and by that got to know a few of you a bit in passing. If I had decided deliberately that i wanted to just pull out my old 40k toys and show up on a Thursday night without that introduction already having been made, I doubt that I would have returned. So this is, for me, about something quite different than some set of guidelines and rules designed to keep XXX army from stomping all over the playground (while recognizing that that is one element of it). Hope that kind of clarifies my motivations here. And didn't sound too preachy.

Also, the alternative always exists - you could all just give up on the 40k nonsense and play Malifaux. I asked around, no signs yet of broken OP shenanigans in V2! :)

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Originally Posted by Splug

I try to not say too much in the public threads on this topic. I think my feedback is more useful as PM's to people making the calls rather than on page 12 of whatever thread is currently running. I've made comments where I feel they were needed.

It doesn't help that a combination of cat and cedar allergies have really disenfranchised me showing up at DL the last two weeks. Last time, I had to bail after about 20 minutes. So I guess from my perspective, the best thing DL could do to improve its tournaments is for Chris to ban cat hair.

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I support this proposal!

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Originally Posted by CRP

I support this proposal!

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I adore you, but you can be a real PITA sometimes.
This is serious stuff - quit trying to be lighthearted! :p

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Originally Posted by morella888

I adore you, but you can be a real PITA sometimes.
This is serious stuff - quit trying to be lighthearted! :p

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How's this for serious? Here is what I think the main problem is:

I'm prefacing the statement below with this disclaimer: The statement is below is not meant as an attack on anyone. I am simply calling things as I see them.

Another thing that faces this community is the battle of egos between several people that have run things in the past and present. The former TOs did a good job. They each have a different way of handling things than the current TO. Chris is doing a good job. I think the former TOs are taking minor bitching that is done offline and over inflating it. The former TOs see their suggestions as a way to fix things. The current TO has a different vision. Neither is right or wrong for the most part. All of them have good ideas. Here is where the problem lies; EVERYONE THINKS THEY ARE RIGHT. I don't think it helps things for former TOs to criticize Chris in public. On the other hand, it doesn't help things for Chris to shut out the former TO's ideas. Here are my suggestions:

1. Old TOs stop with the superior attitudes and please do not be insulting or patronizing.

2. Chris, learn to over look what you perceive as insults and disrespect. Take in all ideas and weigh each on it's own merits regardless of who the idea comes from. Also, keep focusing on your vision of how things should work.

Y'all should listen to me because I've been around longer and that makes me smarter than you....except for splug and Erin who actually are smarter than me. Peace and love!

John, I totally was envisioning you as a TV preacher in a white suit and purple shirt while reading that.

Also, John, I would nominate you as the official ambassador of bridging the gap between the various groups who play at DL. Because I swear you know everybody.

And thanks for the complement.

John does pretty much know everybody. Not just at DL, like in the U.S.