Death from the skies

I don't want to use it

I am not just talking about the dogfight phase. Apparently it makes it to where flyers don't have skyfire

Literally night scythes were snap shooting flying daemon princes

Now I believe that was a bamboozlement as I believe the actual rule is -1 bs

However I also don't want to buy a damn book either

What have you guys heard and think?

Attack and Bomber flyers do not have Skyfire in DFTS. Fighters are -1BS when shooting at ground targets.

I know we are against having to learn new rules, so i would say we do not use any part of it. Its basically a rule book part two which will inevitably lead to players who have the book and those who don't having two different versions of the rules.

yeah until its integrated into 8th, seems like more trouble than its worth

Agreed.

I wasn't going to buy it but I was willing to learn the rules; clunky as they are... Maybe 8th edition in the Fall?

The dogfight phase is clunky, but I think the rest of it is fine. The bulk of the book is made up of data sheets, and rules/missions centered around an air campaign. The actual rules changes that apply to general games are only a couple of pages, and I'm sure they will get included in the next edition. There is a benefit in that flyers can try to make an extra 90 degree turn in the middle of their movement. It sucks that attack flyers can't shoot at other flyers, but here I go trying to apply real world to 40k, but I don't think you'll find too many A-10's winning dogfights against Su-27's, nor would the Su-27 be as effective against ground targets as an A-10.

Skip the dogfight phase and leave out Air Superiority if it gets your panties in that much of a bunch, but the rest of it isn't game breaking. If you have a flyer like a Vendetta or a FW flyer that doesn't have a classification/agility/pursuit, then play them as they were prior to DFTS. I bet FW will put out errata for their stuff sooner or later.

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Originally Posted by DandyPandy

The dogfight phase is clunky, but I think the rest of it is fine. The bulk of the book is made up of data sheets, and rules/missions centered around an air campaign. The actual rules changes that apply to general games are only a couple of pages, and I'm sure they will get included in the next edition. There is a benefit in that flyers can try to make an extra 90 degree turn in the middle of their movement. It sucks that attack flyers can't shoot at other flyers, but here I go trying to apply real world to 40k, but I don't think you'll find too many A-10's winning dogfights against Su-27's, nor would the Su-27 be as effective against ground targets as an A-10.

Skip the dogfight phase and leave out Air Superiority if it gets your panties in that much of a bunch, but the rest of it isn't game breaking. If you have a flyer like a Vendetta or a FW flyer that doesn't have a classification/agility/pursuit, then play them as they were prior to DFTS. I bet FW will put out errata for their stuff sooner or later.

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I don't care about the any of the rules, what i care more about is that i have a space marine book. That books tells me the rules (to an extent) to my Storm Raven and my Storm Talon. Now apparently those rules are wrong and i cant field them without buying another book?

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Originally Posted by Minus67

I don't care about the any of the rules, what i care more about is that i have a space marine book. That books tells me the rules (to an extent) to my Storm Raven and my Storm Talon. Now apparently those rules are wrong and i cant field them without buying another book?

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For DL Tournaments we will not be using these rules.

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Originally Posted by CRP

For DL Tournaments we will not be using these rules.

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Hey John, what is the scope of the rules not being used? All? Is the new SM flier not allowed? New formations not allowed? Would you treat the new flier(s) and formations the same as any other supplement...as long as the player has brought a hard/soft copy and flier/formation meets ITC regulations?

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Originally Posted by DAv

Hey John, what is the scope of the rules not being used? All? Is the new SM flier not allowed? New formations not allowed? Would you treat the new flier(s) and formations the same as any other supplement...as long as the player has brought a hard/soft copy and flier/formation meets ITC regulations?

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dave

it rewrites codex rules and adds things. the problem with saying hey lets let you use the formations is then the "tax" such as not being able to have skyfire or also having -1 BS to ground targets are quickly forgotten. while the dogfight phase seems easy enough to do away with, i think theres a lot of information in the rest of the book that can be quickly overlooked or forgotten unless both players are completely familiar with the rules. in addition, there is a certain unfairness to one player who has made their list with these rules in mind and another who is oblivious to it and gets blindsided at the events, good or bad.

brian

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Originally Posted by noodlers

dave

it rewrites codex rules and adds things. the problem with saying hey lets let you use the formations is then the "tax" such as not being able to have skyfire or also having -1 BS to ground targets are quickly forgotten. while the dogfight phase seems easy enough to do away with, i think theres a lot of information in the rest of the book that can be quickly overlooked or forgotten unless both players are completely familiar with the rules. in addition, there is a certain unfairness to one player who has made their list with these rules in mind and another who is oblivious to it and gets blindsided at the events, good or bad.

brian

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Alright, fair point. Do you feel the same about the stormhawk?

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Originally Posted by DAv

Hey John, what is the scope of the rules not being used? All? Is the new SM flier not allowed? New formations not allowed? Would you treat the new flier(s) and formations the same as any other supplement...as long as the player has brought a hard/soft copy and flier/formation meets ITC regulations?

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I need to spend some time with the book. But, my initial take is:

1. Rules will not be used as we already have issues finishing games. Another phase just slows things down.
2. The new flyer is allowed but will use regular flyer rules.
3. Formations, not at this time. But, I am going to look into it.

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Originally Posted by CRP

I need to spend some time with the book. But, my initial take is:

1. Rules will not be used as we already have issues finishing games. Another phase just slows things down.
2. The new flyer is allowed but will use regular flyer rules.
3. Formations, not at this time. But, I am going to look into it.

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Please give me the Dark Eldar formation at some point :) Even without any of the sweet buffs it gets within the death from the skies rules.

I just want my 4 flyer formation to run with harlequins/assassins so badly for much needed anti gunline tools. And the sweet Narrative effect of a bunch of flyers carpet bombing the area while a bunch of assassins kill the enemy general in the confusion. Don't take this from me John Cook!

You have 4 DE fliers?

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Originally Posted by rand0mnumb3r

Please give me the Dark Eldar formation at some point :) Even without any of the sweet buffs it gets within the death from the skies rules.

I just want my 4 flyer formation to run with harlequins/assassins so badly for much needed anti gunline tools. And the sweet Narrative effect of a bunch of flyers carpet bombing the area while a bunch of assassins kill the enemy general in the confusion. Don't take this from me John Cook!

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were you using them as -1 bs when shooting at ground targets

-1 bs isn't a big deal when shooting large blast missiles

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Originally Posted by daKing

-1 bs isn't a big deal when shooting large blast missiles

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My point is there is a lot of rules with DFTS not just the positives, and unless you're toting the rulebook you're likely bamboozling yourself and also your opponent

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Originally Posted by noodlers

My point is there is a lot of rules with DFTS not just the positives, and unless you're toting the rulebook you're likely bamboozling yourself and also your opponent

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I will absolutely take a -1 BS when firing at "ground" targets so I can have ignores cover vs jetbikes/skimmers/FMC with my buttloads of str5 ap2 shots. Also strength 10 AP 1 bombs with ignores cover! but I don't intend to use any of those rules if people don't want. I will however use the preferred enemy vs 1 unit formation bonus.

Don't worry I didn't use any death from the skies rules in our game.

I will say that death from the skies flyer rules are EXTREMELY good vs Eldar. As in HARD counter to eldar of every kind, but if you guys don't want to use death from the skies that is cool to.

As a card-carrying member of the He-Man Eldar-Haters Club...go on, tell me more.