Explain to me something using your inside voice

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02-12-2014, 04:39 PM
mrjones

Personally i dont see what the big deal about wave serpents are they are not that great; however if you argueing that they are not fun Are we going to change the rules on all units that people find unfun ? Why not make the balefalmer ap 4 and bring rune weapons in line with other psychic hoods. Or what ever else you can think of. I don't think we should open the box on house ruling specific units.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ace423

Also, if you put a Land Raider on the field they stare dumbly at it for awhile, wondering where their life went wrong

This is a good example wouldn't the land raider be unfun for the eldar player, should we introduce new rules for land raider to make it more fun for the eldar player?
02-12-2014, 05:11 PM
kjolnir

Not that great against things with a 3 or 4+ armor maybe. My troops only have a 6+ armor and are tough 3. Wave Serpents rip them to shreds.
02-12-2014, 05:17 PM
Darkwynn

Quote:

Originally Posted by kjolnir

Not that great against things with a 3 or 4+ armor maybe. My troops only have a 6+ armor and are tough 3. Wave Serpents rip them to shreds.

And you have tons of them for what you pay for. You still get a save against Serpent sheilds... and you can get a cover save against scatter lasers.

You don't get saves against bolters... Should we remove them?

That being said I guess I wonder why are we posting or talking about this? What is the point of this thread to begin with?
02-12-2014, 05:25 PM
vermicious knid

Nids have the tools to beat serpent lists. Vector strike is your friend.
02-12-2014, 05:34 PM
kjolnir

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkwynn

And you have tons of them for what you pay for. You still get a save against Serpent sheilds... and you can get a cover save against scatter lasers

Yes they are cheap, but Wave Serpent spam is going to force me to take them in broods of 30 if I want any of them to make it to the end of the game, which has the simultaneous effect of hampering my ability to deal with them. If I take more points in cheap troops, I've got less points to spend on things that can actually destroy a Wave Serpent.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkwynn

You don't get saves against bolters... Should we remove them?

I get a cover save which at worst is twice as good as armor save, so this example really isn't applicable.
02-12-2014, 05:40 PM
kjolnir

Quote:

Originally Posted by vermicious knid

Nids have the tools to beat serpent lists. Vector strike is your friend.

Vector strike hits the side armor (12 on a Wave Serpent), and most of the flying stuff is S6 or below - meaning I'm not going to do much. The obvious except is Crones (and trust me, I vector strike the poop out of any offending Wave Serpent with crones). I also take the haywire template thorax weapon on the flyrants which helps, but that's still only one hit per vehicle. If I'm lucky enough to get behind it I can probably kill it, but that's not easy against a player that's good with their vehicles.

That works just fine against maybe 2-3 Wave Serpents. The problem comes when there are 4 or more. They are putting out enough twin-linked shots to reliably ground 50% my FMCs each turn by themselves, not to mention all the other Guided and/or Prescience'd stuff that's undoubtedly going to be on the table. FMCs can get killed pretty quickly by Eldar with the prevalence of S6+ shooting out there, not to mention distortion weapons.

An individual wave serpent isn't that bad, but that's not what people are really complaining about it. It's when you see 5 or more that it's just silly.
02-12-2014, 05:48 PM
vermicious knid

Quote:

Originally Posted by kjolnir

Vector strike hits the side armor (12 on a Wave Serpent), and most of the flying stuff is S6 or below - meaning I'm not going to do much. The obvious except is Crones (and trust me, I vector strike the poop out of any offending Wave Serpent with crones). I also take the haywire template thorax weapon on the flyrants which helps, but that's still only one hit per vehicle. If I'm lucky enough to get behind it I can probably kill it, but that's not easy against a player that's good with their vehicles.

That works just fine against maybe 2-3 Wave Serpents. The problem comes when there are 4 or more. There are putting out enough twin-linked shots to reliably ground 50% my FMCs each turn by themselves, not to mention all the other Guided and/or Prescience'd stuff that's undoubtedly going to be on the table. FMCs can get killed pretty quickly by Eldar with the prevalence of S6+ shooting out there, not to mention distortion weapons.

An individual wave serpent isn't that bad, but that's not what people are really complaining about it. It's when you see 5 or more that it's just silly.

I've lost to a tyranid FMC list with my serpent list. I promise you it can be done.

I'm not arguing that a serpent list is a favorable matchup for nids...it isn't. It isn't by any means hopeless though. Flyrants are pretty awesome, and crones make serpents very sad. You also can have an enormous number of bodies on the field, so many that to kill them all the serpent player needs to disembark dudes...and nids have lots of ways to kill disembarked dudes.

In any case you are unlikely to see me field my 5-6 serpent list at future unrestricted tournaments...because that list has some holes you can drive a land raider through.
02-12-2014, 05:51 PM
kjolnir

Quote:

Originally Posted by vermicious knid

I've lost to a tyranid FMC list with my serpent list. I promise you it can be done.

Not saying it can't. What I AM saying is that it's the opposite of an entertaining game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vermicious knid

I'm not arguing that a serpent list is a favorable matchup for nids...it isn't.

That's pretty much my point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vermicious knid

In any case you are unlikely to see me field my 5-6 serpent list at future unrestricted tournaments...because that list has some holes you can drive a land raider through.

That's cool. Unfortuantely, I don't have any land raiders to field with my 'Nid army ;-)
02-12-2014, 05:55 PM
vermicious knid

Quote:

Originally Posted by kjolnir

That's cool. Unfortuantely, I don't have any land raiders to field with my 'Nid army ;-)

Hey, that is what allies are for!

lol
02-12-2014, 06:17 PM
The Dude

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkwynn

That being said I guess I wonder why are we posting or talking about this? What is the point of this thread to begin with?

Who knows. There is probably no way it can end well...

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