Explain to me something using your inside voice

I guess the point that Wave serpent spam isn't good so why do people play it? It can be beat pretty easy and even Nids can smoke it fast.

As for Bolters, I don't think its too much off. It is still a weapon. If you have cover you get a 5+ save. If you don't you get a 6+ save. If scatter laser hits you , you still get a 5+ cover save.

Binomial Distribution

Mean Kill Bolter, Serpent shield, Scatter laser
0 2.978% 2.145% 6.564%
1 12.538% 13.841% 25.617%
2 23.757% 33.487% 37.489%
3 26.674% 36.007% 24.383%
4 19.655% 14.519% 5.947%
5 9.931% 0.000% 0.000%
6 3.484% 0.000% 0.000%
7 0.838% 0.000% 0.000%


Bolter Serpent Scatter laser
# Shots 10 4 4
BS of Attacker 4 4 4
S of Weapon 4 7 6
Twin-linked? No Yes Yes
Re-Roll Failed Wounds? No No No
T of Target 3 3 3

To Hit Roll 3 3 3
To Damage Roll 3 2 2
Rending? No No No
Target's Save (7=No Save) 5 6 5
Feel No Pain? No No No
Fortune No No No
Misfortune No No No

Probability of hit 66.7% 66.7% 66.7%
+ Twin-linked bonus 0.0% 22.2% 22.2%
Probability of wound 66.7% 83.3% 83.3%
+ Re-roll wounds bonus 0.0% 0.0% 0.0%
Probability of a Rend 0.0% 0.0% 0.0%
Probability failed save 66.7% 83.3% 66.7%
Probability of Single Success 29.6% 61.7% 49.4%

Mean Number of Kills (μ) 2.96 2.47 1.98
Standard Deviation (σ) 1.44 0.97 1.00

I bet you at the same basic level this is what GW looked at when justifying point cost for the Serpent. You get saves and your guys will make it alive.

I think the biggest thing people have problems with is they think they get no save and that is the perception when that isn't the truth. Do people forget that it is AP - ? I mean that sounds like the perception that you guys all talk about. That we just die, we don't get saves and makes me think people are just not playing it right...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Darkwynn

I guess the point that Wave serpent spam isn't good so why do people play it? It can be beat pretty easy and even Nids can smoke it fast.

---

I think that is a little strong. Mech eldar is strong, it just has some hard counters. A few serpents + a couple wraithknights is just plain better, as is seer council + a few serpents, etc...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by vermicious knid

I think that is a little strong. Mech eldar is strong, it just has some hard counters. A few serpents + a couple wraithknights is just plain better, as is seer council + a few serpents, etc...

---

Yeah, I can agree with that but it's not for doing damage it's for knocking down chaos daemon FMCS. That is a different list I guess , again why are we asking ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by vermicious knid

Hey, that is what allies are for!












lol

---

rofl

Yeah I honestly don't know what this thread was about. After playing against serpent spam at the last tournament, I understand why it's a pain, it's the same reason that tau is a pain, it's volume and it's repeatable volume. It's just, "here's 12 saves to make, repeat 5 times."

Yes, you have a save but numbers will get you eventually. Or turn 1. Regardless it's not unbeatable by any means it's just the same effect as when a Helldrake swoops in and kills 10 marines or Epic Haley uses her feat. You just kind of glaze over, shrug, and wait to be able to do things.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ace423

Yeah I honestly don't know what this thread was about. After playing against serpent spam at the last tournament, I understand why it's a pain, it's the same reason that tau is a pain, it's volume and it's repeatable volume. It's just, "here's 12 saves to make, repeat 5 times."

Yes, you have a save but numbers will get you eventually. Or turn 1. Regardless it's not unbeatable by any means it's just the same effect as when a Helldrake swoops in and kills 10 marines or Epic Haley uses her feat. You just kind of glaze over, shrug, and wait to be able to do things.

---

This just in, Shooting armies shoot and you have to make saves or you DIE! Pulling models and doing nothing all game isn't fun! More at 11!





welcome to 6th.

not a poke at JR, but more a poke at 6th in general. The game has shifted to shooting being more dominate than it was in 5th. "Close combat isn't as good" as it was in 5th (at least that is the perception) and people are still trying to adjust to that after CC being the more interactive thing for the previous editions.

I think that is what it boils down to. Getting shot at isn't as interactive and getting in close combat. Which is why Serpent Spam is boring if you're on the receiving end. Same playing against gunlines in general. (which is why fantasy is dying...but that's another topic.) Just roll dice and pick up models. I don't see anyone taking a bunch of close combat units and trying to make that work. Thomas takes hordes of demonettes because they have the right tools to kill most stuff in CC, he can take squads of 10,000 and also they have a constant 5+ save. You ever try to kill 10,000 models with a 5++ ? it's a lot of shooting, let me tell you!

And Nick, yes gaunts get saves vs the wave serpents, but that's about as reliable as getting warp lance from zoanthropes to actually do something...actually it maybe better.

16% chance to save vs [Roll for the power to go off (10/12 or 83%) + Roll to hit (4/6 or 66%) + roll for deny the witch (variable, but assume 6+, so 83% to pass) + Roll to wound (assume less than T8, so 83% to pass) + Roll cover save (assume 5+, so 66% for failed save)] = MATH! More important that's 5 points of failure...STUPID POWERS. /rant

I guess the point is - you can still pivot your Landraider.

Yeah, it does seem rather Whiny now that it's not 2:30am.
Meh.

I don't think pivoting Land Raiders are fair....but I like pie!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AdamHarry

welcome to 6th.

not a poke at JR, but more a poke at 6th in general. The game has shifted to shooting being more dominate than it was in 5th. "Close combat isn't as good" as it was in 5th (at least that is the perception) and people are still trying to adjust to that after CC being the more interactive thing for the previous editions.

---

Can this turn into a thread bitching about 6th? I still have plenty of venom to vent.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by vermicious knid

Can this turn into a thread bitching about 6th? I still have plenty of venom to vent.

---

Do you have enough to make a venom pie?