A Points System for Age of Sigmar

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Originally Posted by mathusala0

you cant just put them on flamespires, the flamespires can be ridden by them which grants them an additional attack and special rule. so the points for the flamespire would be 157 points not counting any special rules.

now that said, they are worth a hell of a lot more than that with the "reborn" special rule as well as wake of fire. wake of fire is worth about 70 points (mortal wounds I value at around 20 points per potential one per turn, but there isnt a good math formula for this because mortal wounds are often dealt in different ways.) phoenix reborn would either need an amendment/errata or be worth 75 extra points (half the value of the original unit for half the chance to come back) making the phoenix about 300 points with rounding.

putting an annointed on one would again increase the durability. so would increase the cost by 75 plus the value of the new halberd attack which is worth 18 points so around 95 to 100 extra points.

and no, it does not double the durability, for each wound it takes it has a 1/2 chance to save it. thats a 50% increase in durability, not 200%

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It takes 24 wounds on average to kill a monster with 12 total wounds and a 4++ "ward". That seems like a doubled durability to me.

Paying 100 points to give a 300 point monster doubled durability with a 4++ "ward" save and some cool bonus abilities is beyond a steal. I just don't see how the point system takes into consideration the multiplicative effects some of the rider options for mounts give.

Regardless, The fact both my Flamespyre phoenixs and Dragon Archmage suddenly became good units, or at least relatively equal to their Frostheart/Prince counterparts, is awesome.

Don't the summoned units come in as dead models/casualties, so you basically make it an all of nothing game?

If summoned units are killed during the game they count as casualties (when calculating a minor vicotry) which is the numerator of the fraction, but you do not count them towards "starting models" which is the denominator. Which means you can end up losing more than 100% of your army if you summon a lot of things and they die. Summoned units to not, however, automatically count towards victory points for your opponent. They have to actually be killed.

I read it differently. it seemed to me that they count as casualties as soon as they come on the board, I understand that they don't count towards your starting value

There are two numbers being compared: the number of models removed from play and the number of models originally set up for the battle for each army.

The clarification in the next paragraph is just to note that reinforcements, reincarnated, and summoned models are not "originally set up for the battle" so they do not count in that group. But if they die, they are considered to be in the "removed from play" group.


This seems to be a way to counteract the power of summoning and reinforcements a bit.

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Paying 100 points to give a 300 point monster doubled durability with a 4++ "ward" save and some cool bonus abilities is beyond a steal. I just don't see how the point system takes into consideration the multiplicative effects some of the rider options for mounts give.

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then play it at 300 extra points. Seriously that's what playtesting is for, I can get perfect estimates on a model's value without special rules, but in some cases there will be no mathematical way to calculate the value of a special rule and as such you just have to place a value on it and test until it feels right. When I was playtesting my fanbook back in the day I toyed around with both the rules for the special rules as well as their respective costs. it took many MANY games to round out the numbers.

So anyone who wants to test the system at Dlair I'd love the help, but nothings perfect yet, this is the missing skeleton to what Age of Sigmar can be. I hope to flesh it out and make it into a fantastic tactical game.