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Thread: Jink, cover, and a few other rules clarifications

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  1. #1
    Senior Member Hogleg's Avatar
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    Jink, cover, and a few other rules clarifications

    This came up Sunday, I was wrong on Jink. However there was some confusion I made on a cover ruling. So I also wanted to explain intervening terrain.

    On Jink:
    The FAQ reads 'Skimmers that are not also Heavy vehicles or are immobilized have the Jink special rule."

    So Jink is lost the moment the vehicle becomes immobile, even if you Jinked earlier in the phase the rule is lost after the vehicle is immobilized.

    On Cover:

    This one is harder to explain but I wanted to demonstrate it's change based on the rule book because it's all too often overlooked. The gist is, shooting through an intervening terrain feature doesn't bestow the save of that feature onto the obscured unit, the save is instead taken at a 5+. Meaning shooting at a unit or model whose line of site is obscured by a ruin, the cover save would not be the same as if the unit or model were contained within the ruin. Which also makes it hilariously possible to get a better save from being obscured by some terrain vs being in it. Like craters.

    The rule for cover and it's save is on page: 37. Whether or not you "are in cover behind" or "in" is explained on 108, as is the save for ruin and one's eligibility for the 4+ save. So to get the 4+ ruin save you must be in the ruin, if you are simply 25% obscured by a ruin your save is 5+. Or if you are in a crater your save is a 6+, but if you are somehow obscured by it, you'd have a 5+.

    Vehicles are different as their rule states that they receive the benefit based on being 25% obscured.

    All that said, it's confusing and I'm a fan of allowing the better save in the spirit of holy crap cover is explained in a convoluted way in the rule book. The whole idea of defining "behind" and "in" is new so if you guys want to talk about house ruling it so that things basically work the way most people play (Basically if you are in or 25% obscured, then take the terrain feature's save.) I'm up for that.
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  2. #2
    I think you're wrong on this. Being obscured by a ruin and getting a 4+ cover save is exampled in the book when it shows a rhino getting a cover save from different angles in a ruin. When I get home tonight I'll give a page number, but it's there.

  3. #3
    Senior Member rand0mnumb3r's Avatar
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    Lets just go with "take the terrain feature's save". It is what I have played since always and everyone seems to as well. It is already well established and noones ever complained about it. Although I would love to see someone argue with a flyrant player about how his rhino gets a 4+ from the ruins but his flyrant only gets a 5+ because he didn't have a toe in. Bizarro world gets even more bizarro... next we will have I6 tac marines or I9 dreadnaughts. Bizarro.

    I know they have several "unless otherwise stated all cover is 5+" clauses, and its never quite explicitly stated that "4+ cover gives 4+ cover being 25% obscured and this is definitely the part where we are 'stating otherwise'". That said it is very VERY heavily implied in the rules for many pieces of cover.

    It is pretty easy to tell what they were aiming for when they threw all those "unless otherwise stated" clauses everywhere, and wrote all the special terrain rules. but in the end they forgot to put a bolded sentence of "4+ cover gives 4+ cover for being obscured". I guess they assumed 40k players would play with a modicum of common sense. lol good joke...

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by rand0mnumb3r View Post
    Bizarro world gets even more bizarro... next we will have I6 tac marines or I9 dreadnaughts. Bizarro.
    Pfft. That exists now. Get with the times :P

  5. #5
    Senior Member RealGenius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hogleg View Post
    This one is harder to explain but I wanted to demonstrate it's change based on the rule book because it's all too often overlooked. The gist is, shooting through an intervening terrain feature doesn't bestow the save of that feature onto the obscured unit, the save is instead taken at a 5+. Meaning shooting at a unit or model whose line of site is obscured by a ruin, the cover save would not be the same as if the unit or model were contained within the ruin. Which also makes it hilariously possible to get a better save from being obscured by some terrain vs being in it. Like craters.

    The rule for cover and it's save is on page: 37. Whether or not you "are in cover behind" or "in" is explained on 108, as is the save for ruin and one's eligibility for the 4+ save. So to get the 4+ ruin save you must be in the ruin, if you are simply 25% obscured by a ruin your save is 5+. Or if you are in a crater your save is a 6+, but if you are somehow obscured by it, you'd have a 5+.
    Well, I'm not sure that is what top of pg 108 is saying. Craters give you a 6+ even if you aren't obscured 25%, as long as you are in it. It would be impossible for a Centurion to get the 5+ being 25% obscured by a GW crater, meaning they get no save standing behind it. But a 6+ inside it.

    The rules for walls seems pretty clearly to indicate a 4+ for in cover behind, which 108 says is 25% obscured by the wall.
    Jim
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  6. #6
    Senior Member Hogleg's Avatar
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    Yeah Matt, vehicles are different and crystal clear. It also specifies vehicles ignore the other rules for cover cause they have their own.

    For non-vehicles on page 108 it says a ruin gives you a 4+ if you are in it, then they define what it means to be behind and what it means to be in.

    I'm all for house rule play the way we always do.
    Quote Originally Posted by RealGenius View Post
    Your "booty > money > toy soldiers" logic is indeed irrefutable.
    http://www.centexwar.com/warroom/group.php?groupid=8

  7. #7
    Senior Member RealGenius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccrraazzyyman View Post
    Page 77 in the box labeled "Obscured Vehicles."
    "Picture 2: more than 25%of the front of the Space Marine Rhino is hidden by the ruin - the Rhino is obscured and will receive a 4+ cover save."
    No house rule needed. The book is very clear that a vehicle obscured by ruins gets a 4+ cover.
    No one disagrees about vehicles, I believe he's talking the difference between a non-vehicle unit being in as opposed to 'in cover behind' certain pieces of terrain.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hogleg View Post
    For non-vehicles on page 108 it says a ruin gives you a 4+ if you are in it, then they define what it means to be behind and what it means to be in.
    But then it looks like almost all of them it gives the same cover save for 'in cover behind'. Well, I guess craters don't. Craters would be a 5+ if you can somehow be behind it and get 25% obscured, which is probably really tough for most things. Barricades and Walls, Defense Line, Gun Emplacement, Imperial Statuary -- there's only really behind since you can't be in it. Rubble is like craters -- in = 4+, looks like behind = 5+.

    What was the intervening cover that caused the issue to bring this up? I'm assuming it was some sort of area terrain and 'in cover behind' applies instead of 'in', right?
    Jim
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  8. #8
    Senior Member Hogleg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RealGenius View Post
    No one disagrees about vehicles, I believe he's talking the difference between a non-vehicle unit being in as opposed to 'in cover behind' certain pieces of terrain.



    But then it looks like almost all of them it gives the same cover save for 'in cover behind'. Well, I guess craters don't. Craters would be a 5+ if you can somehow be behind it and get 25% obscured, which is probably really tough for most things. Barricades and Walls, Defense Line, Gun Emplacement, Imperial Statuary -- there's only really behind since you can't be in it. Rubble is like craters -- in = 4+, looks like behind = 5+.

    What was the intervening cover that caused the issue to bring this up? I'm assuming it was some sort of area terrain and 'in cover behind' applies instead of 'in', right?
    Big ruin in the middle of the table. Models were about 12" away from it but obscured by it. So that's a 5+.

    And I mentioned the crater behind thing as a joke, cause gretchin.
    Quote Originally Posted by RealGenius View Post
    Your "booty > money > toy soldiers" logic is indeed irrefutable.
    http://www.centexwar.com/warroom/group.php?groupid=8

  9. #9
    Senior Member RealGenius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hogleg View Post
    Big ruin in the middle of the table. Models were about 12" away from it but obscured by it. So that's a 5+.
    Behind, not in. So people are not playing it 5+?
    Jim
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  10. #10
    Senior Member Caldera02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RealGenius View Post
    Behind, not in. So people are not playing it 5+?
    When it's a ruin they want a 4+, which is wrong i believe
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    Hogleg - "only in my head someone bought CRP's OOP Wraithlord then stuck its toe in cover."

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