WGC Paint Contest 2013 - I did think we could do it....

... that is, I didn't think we could make it any more ghetto and disappointing, but we pulled it off! Yay!

Prize support is nice, but the real reason people enter a painting contest is for the recognition and acknowledgment from their piers. But, not only could we not scrape together $20 in prize support for the 1st place winners, this year we couldn't even be bothered to read out their names!

That's right! we accepted money from people, from some for no other reason than the privilege of participating in some friendly competition, and then didn't even think it was worth giving them the satisfaction of knowing how they did! How is that for a '**** You, thanks for playin'?

If WGC can't even carve out some funds or even some prize support from vendors, or hell even printing up a certificate, then don't insult people by having the damn thing.

It was not just pathetic, it was rude and inconsiderate.


BDub

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Originally Posted by BDub

... that is, I didn't think we could make it any more ghetto and disappointing, but we pulled it off! Yay!

Prize support is nice, but the real reason people enter a painting contest is for the recognition and acknowledgment from their piers. But, not only could we not scrape together $20 in prize support for the 1st place winners, this year we couldn't even be bothered to read out their names!

That's right! we accepted money from people, from some for no other reason than the privilege of participating in some friendly competition, and then didn't even think it was worth giving them the satisfaction of knowing how they did! How is that for a '**** You, thanks for playin'?

If WGC can't even carve out some funds or even some prize support from vendors, or hell even printing up a certificate, then don't insult people by having the damn thing.

It was not just pathetic, it was rude and inconsiderate.


BDub

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^^^This^^^

If we can't even be bothered to read the category winners names out and hand out at least some certificates then I say this event goes away. Seriously. This was some BS.

ETA: However the two winners that were announced did get GREX Airbrushes.

I told Jwolf I'm taking it over next year. I don't have beef with you guys who got wrangled into dealing with it last minute, but the whole to-do ended up being pretty insulting. I may try to pull Ben into it as well, since that master's category that never happened was intended for us in the first place. Maybe fresh people can pull this thing back out of the grave.

I don't mind assisting at all. I think I will see if I can get Reaper to provide some prize support help, and we can talk to the Lone Star Historical Miniature Club about lending a hand maybe. Let's see, but let's do the after action and let the events settle in our skull before we tackle this again.

All, I am not trying to be mean but I am trying to be honest. This talk happened last year, and nothing ever came out of it. Fast forward to now and same thing happened if not worst.

People need to take action. Talk is easy but action is harder.

No last year all of the category winners were announced and people got resin WGC trophies/purity seals. So in fact it was not the same as this year. We had a similar support discussion last year but this year really shows how it got worse not better. Beamo has talked about taking the reigns on this. Cool. I'll help him because this was my baby for the first 3 years of this con. I had a blast doing Apoc and I want to keep doing it, but I'll assist Brandon. I'll post more very specific issues that need to addressed later. Overall the ball was completely dropped this year. I'm not blaming anyone or raging about this, but we can and have done better. I think we need to have some face to face staff meetings starting in a month or so so everything goes better.

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Originally Posted by Psyberwolfe

No last year all of the category winners were announced and people got resin WGC trophies/purity seals. So in fact it was not the same as this year. We had a similar support discussion last year but this year really shows how it got worse not better. Beamo has talked about taking the reigns on this. Cool. I'll help him because this was my baby for the first 3 years of this con. I had a blast doing Apoc and I want to keep doing it, but I'll assist Brandon. I'll post more very specific issues that need to addressed later. Overall the ball was completely dropped this year. I'm not blaming anyone or raging about this, but we can and have done better. I think we need to have some face to face staff meetings starting in a month or so so everything goes better.

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If you want to think that sure, I guess.

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Originally Posted by Darkwynn

People need to take action. Talk is easy but action is harder.

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How about the first action being some damn support!? I don't need to hear your BS management language - it too is just talk.

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Originally Posted by Darkwynn

If you want to think that sure, I guess.

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...and don't you dare be dismissive! You know this was fail and it falls squarely on the organizers, not the volunteers.

In fact, this year there would have only been an empty room with some minis in it if some of us didn't actually lend a last minute hand to actually do the judging and handle the pick up. So either pipe up with something constructive or shut the hell up.

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Originally Posted by BDub

...and don't you dare be dismissive! You know this was fail and it falls squarely on the organizers, not the volunteers.

In fact, this year there would have only been an empty room with some minis in it if some of us didn't actually lend a last minute hand to actually do the judging and handle the pickup. So either pipe up with something constructive or shut the hell up.

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You are right it does. I still don't know who was running the painting contest and I asked that multiple times. I still have no idea. I don't know who did the judging or any of that. But what you are doing is not helpful either Billy. Cool be mad, call it names of management talk or language but you are not helping either. You would have been better off yetting it fail also.

All I am saying is the same thing happened last year. It was also put together at last minute. Just as same this year. Great, people are complaining about it again, same as last year. The same things are happening if people want to actually correct it and not fall in the cycle step up and correct it.

Otherwise the same thing happens. Don't get pissy with me or direct your anger at me.

Also, at this point some volunteers are organizers and some organizers are voulnteers. No one has an idea on where the line is drawn or not. No one is blaming any one yet but you think you have it in your head.

If people are going to step up and run it they need to be reliable and not flake out last minute or a month before hand.

Think what? That this was the worst year for painting? It was. Historical and overall got announced. Last year the winners from each category got announced.

Think we had the same support discussion? I said above we had something similar last year.

What was at least what was cool about this year:
Grex airbrushes for prizes for the two winners that were announced at the award ceremony. (Best Prizes Yet!)
Belt Buckle
Announcing the winners between the single day event and the multi-day event.

Here is our painting competition's problems as I see them:
Out of the way and almost completely unannounced.
There was no lead for this. This task was not assigned or handled.
The top in each category was not announced. Getting announced for painting competitions, even if all you get a hand shake, is HUGE.

How to Fix the above:
1. We had plenty of floor space in the vendor area, so this could be under lock and key and on the convention floor which will generate interest.
1.a. Make announcements because we have a PA. I say this because people were coming to me asking about an event which I really wasn't in charge of or had details about.
2. It appears that this is handled for next year so a moot point
3. I've beaten this dead horse enough.

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Originally Posted by Darkwynn

You are right it does. I still don't know who was running the painting contest and I asked that multiple times. I still have no idea. I don't know who did the judging or any of that. But what you are doing is not helpful either Billy. Cool be mad, call it names of management talk or language but you are not helping either. You would have been better off yetting it fail also.

All I am saying is the same thing happened last year. It was also put together at last minute. Just as same this year. Great, people are complaining about it again, same as last year. The same things are happening if people want to actually correct it and not fall in the cycle step up and correct it.

Otherwise the same thing happens. Don't get pissy with me or direct your anger at me.

Also, at this point some volunteers are organizers and some organizers are voulnteers. No one has an idea on where the line is drawn or not. No one is blaming any one yet but you think you have it in your head.

If people are going to step up and run it they need to be reliable and not flake out last minute or a month before hand.

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As usual you are missing my point!

This is not about planning the event - that is another conversation.

This thread is about recognizing the disservice that was committed against the people who paid money to participate in a event and then got **** on. Its about venting off the embarrassment of having angry people walking up to me and asking WTF just happened and not having any answers for them, or even having a person I could point them to to get answers. Its about calling bull**** on being told, "well, got nothin' for 'em so why bother announcing anything?" That's what this is. So yes it is helpful, because it lets me vent and also pulls the dirty laundry out so something can be done about it, or it can be pronounced dead.

No one needs you wading into this with you management hat on or trying to alleviate any residual guilt by association you might be feeling - not right now.

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Originally Posted by BDub

As usual you are missing my point!

This is not about planning the event - that is another conversation.

This thread is about recognizing the disservice that was committed against the people who paid money to participate in a event and then got **** on. Its about venting off the embarrassment of having angry people walking up to me and asking WTF just happened and not having any answers for them, or even having a person I could point them to to get answers. Its about calling bull**** on being told, "well, got nothin' for 'em so why bother announcing anything?" That's what this is. So yes it is helpful, because it lets me vent and also pulls the dirty laundry out so something can be done about it, or it can be pronounced dead.

No one needs you wading into this with you management hat on or trying to alleviate any residual guilt by association you might be feeling - not right now.

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I am not missing your point, I am agreeing with you but if you want to be like a kid and not talk about it. Sure, I am out. I guess I will take my management hat and say your on your own.

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Originally Posted by Darkwynn

All I am saying is the same thing happened last year. It was also put together at last minute. Just as same this year. Great, people are complaining about it again, same as last year. The same things are happening if people want to actually correct it and not fall in the cycle step up and correct it.

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Actually patently not the case last year. Jay was in charge. Everyone was announced. We had trophies and I know that for a fact because I went to the trophy shop on Thursday at 4:30 to get them. The non trophy winners got painted purity seals. The conversation was on making it better not why the hell did we fail.

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Originally Posted by Darkwynn

Otherwise the same thing happens. Don't get pissy with me or direct your anger at me.

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He gets to be because you're really being dismissive. I think we both understand that no really is to blame, but instead of treating us like opponents maybe you should acknowledge that we're right, the announcements were screwed up, and maybe at least thank him and some of the others who made it happen at least.

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Originally Posted by Darkwynn

Also, at this point some volunteers are organizers and some organizers are voulnteers. No one has an idea on where the line is drawn or not. No one is blaming any one yet but you think you have it in your head.

If people are going to step up and run it they need to be reliable and not flake out last minute or a month before hand.

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No one flaked out. No one took the task to begin with. I think we generally assumed someone was handling it. 2012 was better organized in my opinion.

whoa, you guys need to chill out.

Its a day after the con, we have months to plan for the next one. I think everyone is done ****ting all over everyone, and I think its time to make a plan for next year. Whats done is done.

And before I get laid into, I want to see more warmachine guys competing as well, the only large entries this year were PP Huge bases. And that damned king tiger was SICK. I think its a great idea to have it in the main hall, and I think we could look around for glass cases that can be used to display and lock down. I think Mike trying to get something from reaper would be rad, I"ll reach out to Privateer press and see if there is anything that I can rustle up, and I thikn the Grex Air Brush prizes were amazing! (so much so that Im considering getting one, so advertising works!)

Angel I'm not particularly angry or annoyed at anyone. I was more, "Wait ... what just happened." I agree with Billy and I'm already in thinking about next year mode. I'm going to assist Brandon in putting on a better competition, but I'm going to keep heading up apoc as long as John Wolfe wants me.

First - Nick isn't to blame on this - it falling off and no one being the head of it is to blame. Nick ran the 40k tournament. I don't think anyone was assigned the paint judging and it was hurt because of that. I didn't have a list of winners or else I would have spoken about them. I am not sure why there was no list - but again I know I and Nick were not in charge of the painting judging etc.

So what this means is - we need someone to just take it on and do it. Last year we had Jay do it - and this year he didn't want too. No one stepped in and thus it suffered and looked bad. As we take a break, then prepare for next year we need to look at it and actually assign someone to the task of wrangling the "votes" together.

I do agree we should have them out to show - the issue being we need display cases that actually close and keep these models from grubby hands. We need to also determine and define what wins and what doesn't. I didn't have a list of what kind of "awards" or acknowledgments needed to get said. I don't even know who was doing the judging. Heck I screwed up my judging as well due to issues of having to run around and do it and lack of names on things. Lots of stuff that will get discusses and fixed for next year.

I think it would have been better to just discuss this instead of posting etc - I know we don't hang out like we all used too but we could at least just talk, figure it out, and make it better if there is a next time for the paint judging. I do agree it sucked and I when I had people asking about it afterwards I was upset for the lack of coverage.

So in order to turn this around to be constructive we need this

1. Dedicated Head Judge - Someone that is herding these cats
2. A set of judges that help make a decision -
3. Dedicated "trophies" or prizes. Something simple at the very least so the time the competitors spent on the models feels viable.
4. Set up a better viewing area or at least case to show these models off. People didn't know about the contest and it would be great to showcase all of these.

Again this is far off and we all need to wind down but someone needs to be the general of this ship in order to determine if we still need to sail it out to see. Pointing fingers and getting upset - while proving valid points - just makes people upset when we need to just concentrate on doing the job in a much better and effective way.

Lord that probably went all over the place - my eyes are effed by doing reports all day.

I'm not really blaming anyone. This is a tempest in a tea cup. And now we're going fix this crap.

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Originally Posted by Goatboy

First - Nick isn't to blame on this - it falling off and no one being the head of it is to blame. Nick ran the 40k tournament. I don't think anyone was assigned the paint judging and it was hurt because of that. I didn't have a list of winners or else I would have spoken about them. I am not sure why there was no list - but again I know I and Nick were not in charge of the painting judging etc.

So what this means is - we need someone to just take it on and do it. Last year we had Jay do it - and this year he didn't want too. No one stepped in and thus it suffered and looked bad. As we take a break, then prepare for next year we need to look at it and actually assign someone to the task of wrangling the "votes" together.

I do agree we should have them out to show - the issue being we need display cases that actually close and keep these models from grubby hands. We need to also determine and define what wins and what doesn't. I didn't have a list of what kind of "awards" or acknowledgments needed to get said. I don't even know who was doing the judging. Heck I screwed up my judging as well due to issues of having to run around and do it and lack of names on things. Lots of stuff that will get discusses and fixed for next year.

I think it would have been better to just discuss this instead of posting etc - I know we don't hang out like we all used too but we could at least just talk, figure it out, and make it better if there is a next time for the paint judging. I do agree it sucked and I when I had people asking about it afterwards I was upset for the lack of coverage.

So in order to turn this around to be constructive we need this

1. Dedicated Head Judge - Someone that is herding these cats
2. A set of judges that help make a decision -
3. Dedicated "trophies" or prizes. Something simple at the very least so the time the competitors spent on the models feels viable.
4. Set up a better viewing area or at least case to show these models off. People didn't know about the contest and it would be great to showcase all of these.

Again this is far off and we all need to wind down but someone needs to be the general of this ship in order to determine if we still need to sail it out to see. Pointing fingers and getting upset - while proving valid points - just makes people upset when we need to just concentrate on doing the job in a much better and effective way.

Lord that probably went all over the place - my eyes are effed by doing reports all day.

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Ok, so to your first - No one blamed Nick for anything. He injected himself into this, either because he wanted to play devil's advocate, or he felt some residual guilt through association. Also, I did the judging, with the help of Mike and Jay. And the list of winners was right next to the prize support where Jon put it, and was still there after the winner announcements.

Yes thank you, I think we are all aware now that no one was assigned the damn thing! but again that is NOT this damn issue. Why was no one assigned the damn thing is part of the issue. Another part is this - if no one WAS assigned to it and we knew it, why did we bother having it? It should have been cancelled. And the last part of the issues is, if it wasn't going to get cancelled, then those in charge of the larger event owed a minimal effort (like certificates and announcing the winners) out of responsibility for NOT cancelling the damn event!

We all know what is required! It is very clear that the event is not important enough to merit any commitment or support from the organizers. So a completely independent group that wants to have a coinciding painting event will need to self-organize, and let WGC wash their hands of organizing it beyond any floor space provisions and possibly prize support.

But once again, this thread was not about solving the issues - that is being handled elsewhere. This was about alleviating my particular rage and embarrassment, and the only commentary I need from any of you is acknowledgment of the epic fail and either an apology to me and all the participants or a closed mouth!

I'm done with this thread. I've said my piece.